In a bid to win over young voters, US presidential candidates Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have made a series of unorthodox campaign stops in the final stretch of the 2024 race: podcasts.
Harris has entered the podcasting world by joining the most popular podcast among women, Call Her Daddy.
But it is Trump who appears to have really embraced new media by appearing on a string of podcasts and YouTube shows that are particularly followed by young men. The lineup includes episodes with pranksters The Nelk Boys, comedian Theo Von, influencer Logan Paul and political commentator Patrick Bet-David. Each pulled millions of views.
But on Friday, Trump is set to make his biggest podcast appearance yet – sitting down with industry kingpin Joe Rogan, according to campaign officials cited by Reuters and several other news outlets.
“From a political standpoint, you have to figure out what people are doing, what they’re watching, and you have to get on,” Trump, whose campaign has long sought to reach Rogan and his tens of millions of listeners, said in one of the recent podcast stops. “I just see that these platforms are starting to dominate, they’re getting very big numbers.”
Harris’s campaign has also spoken with Rogan’s crew about a possible podcast before the election, but it is not yet confirmed, according to Reuters.
Why Joe Rogan?
Rogan, a former mixed martial arts commentator and reality show host, started his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience, in 2009 with homemade episodes that dove into everything from UFOs and psychedelics to physical fitness.
His eclectic guest list and free-thinking persona earned him a loyal following, and by 2015 he was a dominant force in the industry. In recent years, his guests have included the likes of Elon Musk, Edward Snowden, Mike Tyson and Kanye West.
Rogan’s critics say he caters to right-wing guests, with frequent conversations railing against the “woke” left. His political views appear mixed. He has advocated for drug decriminalisation, gay rights and universal healthcare on his podcast, while also touting conservative causes like gun rights.
In 2020, Rogan endorsed progressive Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders for president, but after Sanders lost the nomination to Joe Biden, Rogan remarked, “I’d rather vote for Trump than [Biden].”
Whatever his politics, Rogan has tremendous reach – 14.5 million followers on Spotify, 17 million followers on YouTube and 19 million more on Instagram.
According to Edison Research, this audience skews conservative. Their data shows that 32 percent of listeners identify as Republicans, while 27 percent are Democrats; 35 percent do not fit into either category.
Rogan’s audience is also predominantly young and male, with 80 percent of listeners being men and 51 percent aged 18 to 35, according to Edison. While this demographic generally favours Trump, connecting with them could offer Harris, who has struggled to make inroads with men of all races, a unique chance to shift the narrative.
Rogan’s take on the candidates
Rogan has, at times, criticised both Trump and Harris, calling the former president an “existential threat to democracy”, and expressing concern that a Harris administration would lead to a “clamp down” on online speech.
In 2022, Rogan said he had repeatedly rebuffed overtures from Trump’s team, stating, “I’ve had the opportunity to have him on my show more than once – I’ve said no every time. I don’t want to help him”.
However, Rogan later seemed more open to a Trump episode, telling a guest who prodded him about hosting the candidate in 2023, “I don’t know. Maybe … It’d be interesting to hear his perspective on a lot of things.”
In other podcasts, Rogan has come to Trump’s defence, saying as recently as September to fellow comedian Tom Segura, “He [Trump] wasn’t a dictator. He was the president … and the economy really did well.”
Rogan has not endorsed either Trump or Harris in the 2024 race, though he did praise independent candidate Robert F Kennedy Jr, who later dropped out and threw his weight behind Trump.
A reach for swing voters?
While both a Rogan-Trump and Rogan-Harris collaboration would be sure to generate buzz, it’s unclear how much it would do for either campaign.
A recent YouGov poll of more than 3,100 US adults found that over half of respondents believe a possible Harris-Rogan episode would make “no difference” in how they view the candidate. Just 14 percent said they would view Harris more favourably, while 13 percent said they’d view her less favourably.
One longtime Rogan listener, Joshua Valle, told Al Jazeera he would “definitely” tune in to an episode with either Trump or Harris, but “there’s no way it would change my vote.”
“I think that’s the case for a lot of people,” said Valle, who plans to vote “against Trump”.
He added, “Trump probably makes a better podcast guest than a president … I wonder if that’s why Rogan has hesitated to have him on for so long.”
Joshua Scacco, director of the Center for Sustainable Democracy and associate professor of political communication at the University of South Florida, told Al Jazeera that while a Rogan podcast appearance “may have little direct impact” due to the “small pool of undecided voters”, it could help mobilise candidates’ bases “because of the subsequent media coverage”.
‘Chasing their audiences’
Campaigning via podcasts such as The Joe Rogan Experience is in many ways a reflection of the media’s evolving landscape and weaker pull of traditional TV advertisements, said analysts.
“The presidential candidates are responding to a media environment where they cannot reach as much of the electorate as they once could via ad buys during national and local news programmes,” Natalie J Stroud, a professor of communications at the University of Texas at Austin, told Al Jazeera. “By doing niche media appearances, the candidates are hoping to reach distinct audiences to not only shore up their base, but potentially convert voters or sway undecideds.”
Scacco added, “Candidates must now chase their audiences into settings like podcast shows, late-night comedy, or daytime television talk shows.”
Podcast appearances are also good at creating viral moments, which candidates’ followers can clip up and share widely across social media platforms, reaching traditionally hard-to-access voters.
“The messaging is not contained to the podcast itself,” said Scacco.
With Trump and Harris neck and neck in the polls, they know that every viral post is a way to shape the narrative and reach more people, especially cyber-dwelling young people who may be disconnected from traditional politics but loyal podcast listeners.
“In an election this close, novel strategies … could have important payoffs,” said Stroud.